I often see a vitamin D supplement listed among the current supplements on my patient’s intake forms. After reviewing their past labs and assessing their dose, I don’t often see an appreciable increase reflected on their labs over time. They may have been taking 2000IU of vitamin D3 daily for the past two years and yet their labs only show a shift from 22ng/ml to 25ng/ml.
What I find is that they are usually taking a vitamin D3 supplement in a soft capsule form, often called a ‘gem,’ and they are taking it in the morning and not in the evening.
Many of my patients are surprised to learn that even though vitamin D is called a vitamin, vitamin D is really a hormone and not actually a vitamin. In fact, it is a fat soluble hormone.
For optimal absorption, the oral supplement “Vitamin” D3 is best taken as a liquid emulsion with dinner. A liquid emulsion is simply a vitamin D3 supplement suspended in a little fat. This is a fat soluble hormone, so taking this as a liquid emulsion improves the absorption and taking this with dinner, which often has the most fat of all the meals, improves the absorption as well. You’ll only need a tiny drop or two of the liquid emulsion on your tongue, as this usually has 1500IU or 2000IU of vitamin D3 per drop (check the label).
Since this is a hormone, it is best taken at night, because hormones are best absorbed at night.
"Learn the right dose, timing and form of D3 to take to reach optimal level with Clean and Lean Revolution"
↑ Tweet ThisWHAT IS THE OPTIMAL VITAMIN D (25 OH) RANGE?
If you have had your vitamin D levels tests, your doctor most likely tested your 25-Hydroxy Vitamin D levels. On your lab this will be listed as “Vitamin D (25 OH)” or “25-Hydroxyvitamin D (25OHD),” or “25(OH)D,” but these are the same test. Even though the lab may report an adequate level of vitamin D as 25-30 ng/ml, the optimal vitamin D range is 45-65 ng/ml.
WHAT DOSE SHOULD YOU TAKE?
In addition to talking a vitamin D3 liquid emulsion at night, taking the right dose to raise your Vitamin D (25 OH) levels up to your goal is also important. A few small studies have shown that 2000IU vitamin D3 taken over three months, will raise Vitamin D (25 OH) levels by 20ng/ml. This may be the reason that many doctors prescribe this dose. Clinically, this doesn’t play out. Some people will need a lot more vitamin D to raise their levels over time.
If your Vitamin D (25 OH) is 25ng/ml and your goal is 45ng/ml, move to a liquid emulsion, taken with dinner and try a 2000-4000IU dose for six months and then retest. Assess how much your vitamin D level moved during that duration and then work with a licensed health care provider to reassess your dose. Once you reach your desired level, you will likely need 1000-2000IU vitamin D3 a day to maintain these levels.
You can use the chart, which offers guidelines for dosing, based on where you are starting and where you want to go. I have found these dosages to be more relevant clinically.
Vitamin D3 should never be taken alone. Always take a combination Vitamin D3/ Vitamin K2 liquid emulsion. This is because vitamin D3 improves calcium absorption across the GI tract and vitamin K2 is the cofactor needed to transfer calcium into your bones, and not your arteries.
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Comments
from 48 people
Hi Autumn,
This does not increase energy. It should be fine to dose at night. CONGRATULATIONS on the effort and results you are seeing with you daughter!!
Warmly
Angela
Angela
Hi Angela, Will the vitamin d not give you energy? I've always hesitated giving it to my daughter at bedtime so we've given it during the morning. She is 5 and suffered with asthma from ages 1-3. Her pediatrician at the time recommended only giving her 400 iu but she was dependent upon flovent, albuterol and claritin everyday of her life and that just didn't work for us. I set out to find how I could help her body heal and after much reading upped her d3/k2 and she's been off inhalers and allergy meds for a year now.
Thanks for your advice!
Autumn
Designs for Health D3 Synergy
Angela
Is there a Brand you recommend with D3 and K 2
Donna
Hi Matt,
I completely agree!! I say this with respect, I do not say anywhere that EVERYBODY has to take 'x' at the exact same time. There is going to be a person out there who, unfortunately, reacts to everything. If you find that you do better taking this earlier in the day, then please do so.
I work with tinctures, high dose, micro-dosing... I always have to meet the patient where they are at. In my clinical experience, being in practice for the last 11 years, I have only had 1-2 patients who couldn't take this at night.
I hope you are feeling better!
Warmly
Angela
Angela
I have an autoimmune disease with gut issues. If I take this at night in the form and way that you suggest, my sleep is awful. Even on a meal full of fat and healthy bone broth. I must take D3 earlier in the day. Angela, we are not all the same and in fact your own body tells you what you need better than clinical trials do. This is one of the major problems with the medical industry. They are helpful, but not the be all end all.
In Pain
The study that showed the interactions with vitamin D and melatonin was done on patients with MS. The authors state that "The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS."
This does not carry over to the general population. This is dosed at night at every clinic that I have worked at and we do not see clinically that this interferes with sleep or other hormone balancing. This includes an oncology center where I worked for three years. We did not note this reaction.
If this concerns you, then feel free to take it in the morning, yes with dietary fat.
BACKGROUND:
Multiple sclerosis (MS) incidence is higher in geographic regions with less sunlight exposure. Both vitamin D and melatonin are essential mediators of the effect of sunlight in health, and as such are candidates to play a key role in MS. We hypothesized that vitamin D and melatonin may have related influences in patients with MS.
METHODS:
In a randomized, double blind study of 40 IFN-β treated MS patients, 21 patients were assigned to 800 IU of vitamin D3 per day (low dose), while 19 patients received 4,370 IU vitamin D3 per day (high dose) for one year. Serum 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (25-OH-D) and nighttime urine melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxy-melatonin (6-SMT), were measured at baseline, 3 months and 1 year from enrolment.
RESULTS:
After 3 months supplementation, 25-OH-D levels increased and nighttime melatonin secretion decreased significantly in the high dose group, but not in the low dose group. After 1 year, a decrease in 25-OH-D levels, accompanied by an increase of urine nighttime 6-SMT were observed in the high dose group. Percent change in serum 25-OH-D was significantly and negatively correlated with percent change in urine 6-SMT after 3 months and between 3 months to 1 year. 25-OH-D levels by the end of the study were significantly and negatively correlated to BMI.
CONCLUSIONS:
Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.
Angela
Vitamin D should not be taken before bed. Vitamin D is a hormone that your body makes while being exposed to sunlight. This process leads to melatonin shutdown in the pineal gland, because sunlight only occurs DURING THE DAY.
The best way to take Vitamin D is a liquid micellized D3 in the morning with dietary fat.
JJCC
This is because it is a fat soluble hormone, and hormones best absorb at night.
Angela
If one is taking vitamin D with a meal containing sufficient fat (I would think 10-15 grams is enough), I didn't think it really had to be taken at dinner. I could be missing something, but I'm not sure how absorption would differ dramatically between morning and evening assuming fat consumption is adequate.
Jason
My vitamin D level was 6, almost non-existent. Before my blood test, I was experiencing severe fatigue, dizziness, headaches, body ache - it was horrible, I was bed ridden for a month. When I finally got my blood results - everything was normal except the severely low D. I have been taking 2,000 IU D3, 250 MG Magnesium Citrate and 100 MCG Vitamin K2 per day (with breakfast) for the past 3 months. I just got my blood tested again and my vitamin d level is 21.8. It's not optimal but my doctor was impressed with the increase and I feel much better than I did 3 months ago. I'm certainly not 100% but my levels are still insufficient - my doctor recommended that I stay on course and keep doing what I'm doing. I did try taking 4,000 IU D3 one day but it made me jittery and gave me anxiety. I don't see any reason to take any more than 2,000 IU a day - it just takes time - be patient and it will get better.
Adam
Yes, these are soluble and need to be taken with food/ with fat for best absorption.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
Hi Angela,
Even drops of D3:K2 have to be taken with food? I usually put few drops under my tongue and let it dissolve, please advise...
Thanks,
Fadi Aboona
Hi Marian,
It is not the same. Some doctors are prescribing D2. I much prefer D3, but I would work with your doctor on this.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
So my tests came back 10 for Vit D deficiency. I picked up a prescription for D2? Is this the same as D3
Marian
Please work with your doctor on this - I find that 3k per day will raise levels over a few months. But really, this depends on the person and how sensitive they are to the dosing.
Angela
How long does it take to get levels up from 26 to 30, and then beyond? I'm trying to raise my levels before an IVF cycle.
N
@Henry. I would not make such a hesitated comment. What works for one might not work for the other. Despite many claims that it should be taken at daytime doesn't mean it's ideal for everyone. You know correlation doesn't equal causation.
Myself, i've tested this and i found that i had insomnia before taken larger doses, i suspect deficiency without test results done. I went from 3k d3;k2 sublingual to 6k taken at night when i was in dispair. I instantly fell asleep and slept like a child. Woke up happier than ever!. It makes me sleepy just like when i'm out in the sun... Some get energised, i get sleepy and therefore i suspect i've a great respond to the vitamin (hormone) itself.
Xanton
I like Designs for Health D3 Synergy. It is all in there... you can see the proportions there. If osteoporosis is present, then I up the K2 by adding an additional supplement.
Angela
Angela
Hi Angela! Thanks so much for this info! May I ask how much k2 you recommend taking along with the D3?
Thanks!
Tom
Tom Sanderson
I have not found the injection as effective as the oral dose. I have seen a vitamin D patch that was more effective than the oral version. I would continue to dose, get an emulsified version (that you drop on your tongue) and not a capsule/ gel cap. Then take this on a consistent basis at a higher dose (work with your doctor on this). You might also look at gut healing - and if you are properly digesting fats well (if not, this would interfere with your ability to absorb fat soluble vitamins.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
A very useful post. Thanks!
I have been living in a tropical region for several years now and get almost 1 hour of direct exposure to sunlight per day for most part of the year. And yet, I was found to be Vitamin D deficient and was prescribed Vitamin D injection by an intelligent doctor. And then, the 25(OH)D level was normal for 2-3 years and after that started dropping. This despite me taking VitD oral supplement, I remember that first doctor clearly telling that VitD is poorly absorbed by the intestines and an injection is the best way to boost the levels in VitD deficiency scenario. But other doctors I am consulting now aren't willing to prescribe injection which is not only cheaper but also effective. Why isn't Vitamin D getting synthesized enough despite my getting adequate exposure to direct sunshine?
Anonym
The study that showed the interactions with vitamin D and melatonin was done on patients with MS. The authors state that "The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS."
This does not carry over to the general population. This is dosed at night at every clinic that I have worked at and we do not see clinically that this interferes with sleep or other hormone balancing. This includes an oncology center where I worked for three years. We did not note this reaction.
If this concerns you, then feel free to take it in the morning, with dietary fat.
BACKGROUND:
Multiple sclerosis (MS) incidence is higher in geographic regions with less sunlight exposure. Both vitamin D and melatonin are essential mediators of the effect of sunlight in health, and as such are candidates to play a key role in MS. We hypothesized that vitamin D and melatonin may have related influences in patients with MS.
METHODS:
In a randomized, double blind study of 40 IFN-β treated MS patients, 21 patients were assigned to 800 IU of vitamin D3 per day (low dose), while 19 patients received 4,370 IU vitamin D3 per day (high dose) for one year. Serum 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (25-OH-D) and nighttime urine melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxy-melatonin (6-SMT), were measured at baseline, 3 months and 1 year from enrolment.
RESULTS:
After 3 months supplementation, 25-OH-D levels increased and nighttime melatonin secretion decreased significantly in the high dose group, but not in the low dose group. After 1 year, a decrease in 25-OH-D levels, accompanied by an increase of urine nighttime 6-SMT were observed in the high dose group. Percent change in serum 25-OH-D was significantly and negatively correlated with percent change in urine 6-SMT after 3 months and between 3 months to 1 year. 25-OH-D levels by the end of the study were significantly and negatively correlated to BMI.
CONCLUSIONS:
Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.
Angela
I read an article which said that Vitamin D temporarily halts the production of melatonin so is best taken in the morning rather that at night. Is that possible?
Dennis
Hi James,
No - this does not have a deleterious effect on the liver.
Angela
Angela
Is this bad for the liver?
James Gray
Hi Andy,
CONCLUSIONS:
This is what the study that you are referring to found: "Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS (multiple sclerosis)."
Vitamin D levels should be recovered in most people - there are far reaching benefits that outweigh any negatives here. What we can gather from this study (when you read the whole thing) is that lower doses of vitamin D supplementation (800 IU from the study) do not lower melatonin levels, only larger doses (4370 IU from the study) of vitamin D supplementation does. So, for this population - those with MS, who have had IFN-β treatment, then a lower dose vitamin D supplement is likely a better choice. Melatonin levels can be measured, so if the practitioner feels strongly that vitamin D levels need to be recovered quickly, then they could meet in the middle, with a dose of 2000 or 3000 IU.
The other thing to point out here is that vitamin D supplementation does not have to be taken long term. Levels can be recovered with higher, shorter term dosaging. The study that you are referencing did not look at dosing melatonin at the same time, the long term affects of short term vitamin D dosing or offering the precursors to melatonin - like l-tryptophan, B6, folate (methylated) and supporting the methylation pathways to help the conversion of l-tryptophan into serotonin into melatonin.
That a study is done on 10 people versus 40 people is not a big deal. Yes, MUCH larger study populations are looked on more favorably, but both these studies were found to have significant findings based on the analysis of the data.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
Several studies show that the intake of vitamin lowers the production of melatonin. I am surprised that you haven't looked in depth into those study.
This one for instance
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23665342
was conducted with 40 patients and not 10!
Andy
The study that showed the interactions with vitamin D and melatonin was done on patients with MS. The authors state that "The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS."
This does not carry over to the general population. This is dosed at night at every clinic that I have worked at and we do not see clinically that this interferes with sleep or other hormone balancing. This includes an oncology center where I worked for three years. We did not note this reaction.
If this concerns you, then feel free to take it in the morning, with dietary fat. The study did not show an issue with 800IU vitamin D, so at your 1000IU vitamin D, you are likely fine.
BACKGROUND:
Multiple sclerosis (MS) incidence is higher in geographic regions with less sunlight exposure. Both vitamin D and melatonin are essential mediators of the effect of sunlight in health, and as such are candidates to play a key role in MS. We hypothesized that vitamin D and melatonin may have related influences in patients with MS.
METHODS:
In a randomized, double blind study of 40 IFN-β treated MS patients, 21 patients were assigned to 800 IU of vitamin D3 per day (low dose), while 19 patients received 4,370 IU vitamin D3 per day (high dose) for one year. Serum 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (25-OH-D) and nighttime urine melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxy-melatonin (6-SMT), were measured at baseline, 3 months and 1 year from enrolment.
RESULTS:
After 3 months supplementation, 25-OH-D levels increased and nighttime melatonin secretion decreased significantly in the high dose group, but not in the low dose group. After 1 year, a decrease in 25-OH-D levels, accompanied by an increase of urine nighttime 6-SMT were observed in the high dose group. Percent change in serum 25-OH-D was significantly and negatively correlated with percent change in urine 6-SMT after 3 months and between 3 months to 1 year. 25-OH-D levels by the end of the study were significantly and negatively correlated to BMI.
CONCLUSIONS:
Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.
Angela
Hi - I've read conflicting articles that D3 is best to be taken in the morning because it temporarily disrupts melatonin and could make you less sleepy. I'm just starting to take it at the recommendation of my doctor, who also prescribed I only take 1,000IU daily. I'm confused because it seems like such a low amount, particularly for my body weight. 5'9" 180lb female.
Emmy
I completely agree with you. It is best to discuss this with your doctor and make sure that this is right for the patient.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
Liquid vitamin D3 is NOT should not be touted as best for everybody! A nutritionist with this mindset put my brother on D3 liquid emulsion, the problem was he has MS, and when you have MS your body doesn't know how much it needs. He ended up with a terrible deficiency because he was peeing it all out. Please don't forget that nothing is one size fits all when prescribing vitamins and minerals.
honest
Hi Misty,
It sounds like you are more sensitive to taking vitamin D. Try moving it back earlier in the day and find a better time to take it.
Warmly
Angela
Angela
I take 5000iu of D3 twice a week. On those nights, I take it with dinner and go to bed as normal. I wake up at 3 am wide awake. This only happens on the nights I take D3.
misty
Hi Larry,
I would sneak the into their smoothies. Food is always first! I get loose leaf frozen spinach and kale from Whole Foods and add it directly to the smoothie. Since it is frozen, it doesn't add a lot of flavor. Also consider getting a stainless steel cup so they can't see through it and see the color (lid and straw will finish this off)!
Warmly
Angela
Angela
my 4 yr old doesn't eat much greens hence no vit k in her diet should we give vit k2? I would think all the calcium is being used to grow
larry
larry
The study that showed the interactions with vitamin D and melatonin was done on patients with MS. The authors state that "The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS."
This does not carry over to the general population. This is dosed at night at every clinic that I have worked at and we do not see clinically that this interferes with sleep or other hormone balancing. This includes an oncology center where I worked for three years. We did not note this reaction.
If this concerns you, then feel free to take it in the morning, with dietary fat.
BACKGROUND:
Multiple sclerosis (MS) incidence is higher in geographic regions with less sunlight exposure. Both vitamin D and melatonin are essential mediators of the effect of sunlight in health, and as such are candidates to play a key role in MS. We hypothesized that vitamin D and melatonin may have related influences in patients with MS.
METHODS:
In a randomized, double blind study of 40 IFN-β treated MS patients, 21 patients were assigned to 800 IU of vitamin D3 per day (low dose), while 19 patients received 4,370 IU vitamin D3 per day (high dose) for one year. Serum 25-hydroxy-vitamin-D (25-OH-D) and nighttime urine melatonin metabolite, 6-sulphatoxy-melatonin (6-SMT), were measured at baseline, 3 months and 1 year from enrolment.
RESULTS:
After 3 months supplementation, 25-OH-D levels increased and nighttime melatonin secretion decreased significantly in the high dose group, but not in the low dose group. After 1 year, a decrease in 25-OH-D levels, accompanied by an increase of urine nighttime 6-SMT were observed in the high dose group. Percent change in serum 25-OH-D was significantly and negatively correlated with percent change in urine 6-SMT after 3 months and between 3 months to 1 year. 25-OH-D levels by the end of the study were significantly and negatively correlated to BMI.
CONCLUSIONS:
Melatonin secretion is negatively correlated with alterations in serum 25-OH-D in IFN-β treated patients with MS. The finding suggests that melatonin should be considered as a potential mediator of vitamin D neuro-immunomodulatory effects in patients with MS.
Angela
Vitamin D is a Hormone, but it doesn't mean that it is best taken at night. Vitamin D is opposite in function to Melatonin, which is produced by the Pineal Gland when there is an absence of light. Vitamin D is synthesized in the skin as a result of exposure to sunlight. It suppresses melatonin production and if taken at night will interfere with relaxation and sleep.
John
The source is an n of one and a report on one person's experience. There are some people out there (perhaps someone with an autoimmune condition, or someone with a severe gut imbalance) that may be sensitive to taking this at night. This is not everybody and the studies that have been done on vitamin D and melatonin are done on people who have MS (multiple sclerosis). These results cannot be extrapolated to everyone else. If, when you take vitamin D, you notice a difference with your sleep quality, you could try a couple of things: take this in divided dosages at lunch and dinner, try ramping up your dose at night over time, consider adding in melatonin at 7PM, consider taking precursors to melatonin (l-tryptophan, B6, zinc, and methylation factors).
Angela
Angela
Are You Taking Vitamin D at the Right Time?
Vitamin D is inversely related to melatonin, your sleep hormone, so it makes sense that taking it at night disrupts sleep. I’ve noticed this effect personally. For this reason, there is no reason to take vitamin D at night.
An n=1 experiment done by gwern.net also concludes that taking vitamin D in the morning is best. Using a ZEO, his morning dose of D increased REM, deep sleep, and number of hours increased. He looked at taking the same dosage at night, and his sleep quality plummeted. (11)
My biohacking experiments have similar results. When I’ve taken D in the morning I had my usual great sleep. When I’ve taken D at night, I had a restless night.
In our busy worlds, healthy sleep is gold. If we do not receive the right amounts of vitamin D, sleep suffers. If you live a stressful life, sleep is even more important.
There are other reasons to take it too. In a study with chronic pain patients, vitamin D helped reduce pain, improve quality of life, and increase sleep.(4) Having adequate levels of D may protect against cancer, control inflammation, heart disease, poor mood, and may help regulate the immune system. Most people are vitamin D deficient, and do not know how it can help improve their lives.
What uou are saying is the opposite of the source below. Any comment?
Source: Bullet Proof website
gowshe
Hello - studies have shown that a 1 day large dose vitamin D does not recover levels as well as a daily supplement. 7.1 to 8.1 shift is not a significant change. I would try 5K IU at dinner and make sure that you have a fat source at dinner. Try Emulsi-D3 Synergy by Designs for Health. This is a liquid emulsion that is suspended in fat and this is better absorbed. I would also start to look at your digestive health. Find a doctor who will run a three day stool collection digestive stool analysis with parasitology - you likely have a gut issue that needs to be addressed and this is the reason that you are having a hard time digesting.
Angela
Angela
My vitamin D level was 7.8, I've been on vitamin D2 ( 50,000 unit) weekly, for a month now. My levels are now 8.1. Is this a significant difference? Am I doing something wrong? I have been taking it A.M. And do find that it makes me very sleepy afterward. ( I'm exhausted regularly so maybe I'm imagining the extra lethargy) I'm so tired of having to peel my body from the couch and slothing around the house. Any suggestions?
Tlcgreenie
Hi Viv,
There really isn't a lot of conflicting evidence with the studies. The conflicting evidence is seen more with the artistic license people take writing about this on the web. What the studies show is that a dose of 50,000IU vitamin D3 one time a week, does not raise doses better than taking 4,000 - 5,000IU vitamin D3 daily. You'll also get better absorption over time, if taken at night, with dinner - a meal that has fat in it and near bedtime, because it is a hormone that will absorb and be utilized better at night. It is interesting that it helps you fall asleep! Clinically I see patients with many different nuances - what affects one, what affects another... etc.
Warmly,
Angela
Angela
Angela
Thank you. Actually in the evening works best for me since it makes me quiet sleepy. When I took it in the daytime could barely stay awake.
So much conflicting information on the internet though. I just read another recent article saying that taking a big dosage does not increase levels as effectively as increasing dosage a little at a time and monitoring levels before increasing the dosage again.
viv
Hi Angela -
Very helpful and informative article. Thank you.
Karin
Karin
Hi Henry,
In the article, I recommend that people take this with dinner. The web has a lot of people repeating information that is not entirely true. There have only been a few anecdotal stories posted and one very small (less than 10 subjects) study that looks at vitamin D and sleep disturbances. This needs to be taken with food, for ideal absorption. That said, I have never seen anyone clinically, who had their sleep interrupted by taking this later into the evening.
Angela
Angela
Low response to vitamin D? about 40 reasons No - it should not be taken at night - many people report that it is hard to get to sleep. It helps, however, if a person takes it just after the largest meal of the day.
Henry Lahore
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